First of all: an explanation for the title of my blog...
As a missionary for the LDS church a few years ago, I was serving in Lansing, Michigan (a wonderful place) and one of the members of the church out there left us a message on our answering machine which began, "Elder Stake-n-Shake and Elder Holdinator!" So that's that.
OK, so the reason I wanted to start this blog in the first place was catalyzed by something I read yesterday. I picked up the book Discourses of Wilford Woodruff and started reading from the beginning. Before I got past the first page I came across something that caught me off guard, and it also reminded me of sitting in a Doctrine and Covenants class at BYU a few years ago...
This is what I read:
If there was a point where man in his progression could not proceed any further, the very idea would throw a gloom over every intelligent and reflecting mind. God Himself is increasing and progressing in knowledge, power, and dominion, and will do so, worlds without end. It is so with us. We are in a probation, which is a school of experience.
Now, granted, this passage was selected by G. Homer Durham from the Journal of Discourses, so it was not something that Elder Woodruff (not President at this time, the date is December 6, 1857) personally wrote down, but is recorded as saying. However, it seems rather explicit and difficult to miss the point of it.
So, my first response was the same as when I heard a BYU religion professor, who shall possess perfect anonymity here, teach the same thing in the context of D&C 130:9 -10 which talks about those who are on the earth in its celestial state and how they will be able to look down into the surface of the earth which will be as a sea of glass, or a really big urim and thummim, and will be able to discern anything concerning lower kingdoms; they will also possess their own personal white stones by which they can learn individually concerning higher orders or kingdoms. This professor then concluded that if we, in the celestial kingdom, will be able to learn things about higher orders, that God must be doing the same: learning about higher orders and kingdoms than He Himself enjoys and possesses.
As a student in his class I was shocked at this doctrine. Particularly because of a rather popular talk among Latter-day Saints that was given on the campus of BYU in June of 1980. The talk was given by none other than Elder McConkie, and it was entitled The Seven Deadly Heresies. For those not familiar with the talk, Elder McConkie lists seven "popular" doctrines that are taught in the church that he says are utterly false. The first of these is the above stated doctrine, namely, that God is still progressing in knowledge. He said (but this was not in the version published in print) that any who believe this "have the intellect of an ant and the understanding of a clod of miry clay in a primordial swamp." Incidentally, Elder McConkie also notes that God has been ruling in the heavens for "almost 2,555,000,000 years." I have to admit, that as a missionary I thought that must have been an unpublished revelation and could not wait to tell people how long God had been God--but that's the miracle of this work, right? That 19 year-old boys all zealous about learning odd and amazing tidbits of information bear the work of the ministry...
Anyway, I also turned to Elder McConkie's father-in-law, Joseph Fielding Smith to see what he had to say about this subject in Doctrines of Salvation. Not surprisingly, I found that he addressed this very thing in the opening pages of volume 1, specifically pp 7-10. He says, in effect, first that we cannot teach such a thing because there has never been a revelation stating this explicitly, then states that God's perfection is not relative. "I believe that our Heavenly Father and his Son Jesus Christ are perfect. I offer no excuse for the simplicity of my faith." He then cites a number of scriptural passages which say that God knows all things.
So why bring all this up? I really don't know, but it seemed like something to "blog" about. In the future I plan on blogging about all sorts of things--this will be just kind of what is on my mind: a journal for anyone who cares to read it. Should be fun.
8 years ago
3 comments:
First, let me tell you how I found your blog. A young man in our ward told me about his blog and I popped over to take a look. From there I clicked on his Orem link and found every blogger in the Orem area. The title of your blog caught my interest and there you have it.
Now, to your post. What a wonderful quote by Wilford Woodruff. I remember reading that Brigham Young said he would immerse himself in the libraries of heaven and learn eternally.
God is all knowing and does know everything. Elder McConkie was particularly harsh in his 7 Heresies, but perhaps, and this is just a theory, it is a matter of semantics between apostles and prophets.
However, my thought is this. We do not know how long we were spirits before you and I came to this earth, but it was at least 6,000+ years. We know this mortal probation is short. We don't know the phases beyond that except for what Brigham Young said . . . child to man to angel and so on to eternal progression. We learn endlessly, probably until we've attained the levels we have earned. If it is not the ultimate level, then perhaps we continue to learn eternally. We just don't know.
Wow, was that rambling or what? Anyway, one more thing. Please drop by my blog, find the LDS Blogs Webring and click on Join. We would love to have you as part of our community. I look forward to future posts.
Wow! A comment only hours after creating my blog! How exciting. Thank you for your thoughts... it is daunting to try to think of things beyond ourselves and beyond this mortal probation. Thanks again.
I like it. This is what blogging is for!
I like "Holdinator."
Was it really 5:30am when you posted this?
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